Captain Data VS Apollo: What is the Best Tool for Lead Generation?

Artem Daniliants:
So hi guy. I'm here with Mikael once again, and we decided to change up our format a little bit. And in this format, I will be showing you an interesting tool, and Mikko will be also seeing it for the first time. And I'll be just sharing some of the tools that I've been using testing, considering and so forth. And Mikhail will be giving you his first impressions. And also he will be asking additional questions. And he has never seen been

Mikael Hugg:
And my opinions

Artem Daniliants:
Of course, and opinions, of course, and maybe also alternatives in terms of tools that maybe he uses.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, absolutely. And I'm very psyched by the beat, because just five minutes, before we started recording, you were about to tell me what is the tool that you're gonna present and I just heard of the USA, it's gonna be something about lead generation, which is very close to what we do. So then I thought, okay, don't tell me now. Let's, let's turn on the recording. And I want to see when when we're recording this. So I'm very excited to see what's going on.

Artem Daniliants:
Awesome, awesome. So without further ado, let's just get started. And, obviously, there we go, we need to share our screen. So okay, so basically, today, I want to talk about a tool that I found through AppSumo quite a while ago, but I didn't really have time to start using it. I got it while they had a like a really good deal going on. Now the tool became a little bit more expensive, but still, I think it's it's very much worth the money. And I wanted to Captain Data. Thank Haider. Yeah, so basically, never heard of that one. And Zakia. I think it's a French company. I think it's a French company, French startup. And basically what they do is they create data automation software is a service, it's a sauce service. But it helps you basically automate data centric workflows. I will explain, of course, through some of the examples. But if you want to, for example, extract data from LinkedIn, process the data, maybe integrate Apollo and start fetching contact information, then maybe integrate LEM list and automatically add it, add the lead to your LEM list, workflow and so forth. You can totally do this in Captain data. If you look at the pricing.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah. Okay. So basically, you can, can you use the LinkedIn Sales Navigator? And then I assume that they have some sort of like, Google Chrome. Or you gotta go

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, I got an error, you know?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, exactly. So so they I think they have some sort of extension or like Google Chrome extension.

Artem Daniliants:
Yes.

Mikael Hugg:
And then you can just with our data with that one. You Sir, have you have it checked? Is there any kind of complaints when people are using it so that LinkedIn is going to not notice it? And then they're just banned? They're just banning you because of your using? Yeah, these tools?

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, absolutely. So basically, if we just briefly go over, so the pricing, I will answer the question you asked that if you go over the pricing, the pricing is, is rather steep. Right. So it's quite an early commitment, if you think about it, what but but in my opinion, in my opinion, again, if you're using it for lead generation, I think it might be very well worth it. But again, guys, if you know EC know of any alternative tool that can do this, what I'm about to show you, I would love to hear it, because obviously, I got in and I have a AppSumo version, which means I paid only once and I have a like a really good account. So obviously, for me, using Captain data is not very expensive.

Mikael Hugg:
What was the AppSumo deal? Well, I think because they they had pretty good deals. I've been buying a couple of times from there.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah,I think I think AppSumo deal was $100 one time payment, and you get a bit smaller account than gross but very close to grow. So basically, it was a really, really good meal. It was 100 bucks one time

Mikael Hugg:
Crazy

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. But again, I'll be interested to hear if there is Some alternative tool that is much more cost effective compared to up. So, Captain data, but I wasn't able to find anything. So guys, if you if you know, though, please let me know.

Mikael Hugg:
So I'm using Apollo. Yes. And Apollo has pretty good Google Chrome extension, or that's, you know, I haven't I haven't experienced any problem when I'm taking data from LinkedIn or, or using their own data, what they have, and their data is sometimes not very accurate anymore. You know, I think they should update the more bots. Yeah. So like, 100 $100 per month?

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. I actually started using a ball of that IO, after you recommended it. So thank you very much for the recommendation. I think it's a really, I think it's a really good tool for sure. But the the difference between maybe a Apollo and Captain data is that Captain data is more of an integration tool for other lead generation tools. So you can integrate into you know, LEM lists, or Apollo or LinkedIn, Instagram, Google Sheets, you can integrate and create workflows. But in order to answer your question regarding LinkedIn, and so forth, when you get an account with with Captain data, what you will do, probably the first thing you will do is you will go to integrations and you will click LinkedIn. And then you can connect your LinkedIn account. And there are two options, you can connect manually, you will have to know the cookie, you know, Id and so forth, which is really tedious. Or you can do you know, you can do it the easy way, you can just click connect new account. And then you can just, you know, if you're using their extension, right, you can just get all the information sync synchronised from the extension. But if you want to connect somebody else's account, so let's say you have, like, you run an agency, and you want to do lead generation for your client, not for yourself, not for your company for your client, obviously, client doesn't want to give you his LinkedIn password and login. So what you can actually do is you can create a new icon, because I don't have the limit to do that. But you can actually send a URL, you can actually send the URL to here, share this with somebody else, you can click and it will create the URL that you can give to your customer. And then using that URL, he will instal the extension, and that extension will send his cookie information to you to Captain data. So you can start using workflows using his LinkedIn account without him giving access to his LinkedIn account, which obviously makes a lot of sense. So it's useful maybe when you're working with, you know, clients, or if you're, if you want to use somebody else's LinkedIn account, maybe you're a salesperson, or whatever. And here the to answer your question limits. So basically, in order to make sure that you don't get banned from LinkedIn, obviously LinkedIn doesn't like any kind of, you know, automation tools, it's that they don't really like it, you know, it's not maybe against the law

Mikael Hugg:
But you get very easily banned.

Artem Daniliants:
Yes. So here, you have limits, they automatically set very good limits. And then if you're using Sales Navigator, you can also set limits for Sales Navigator as well, since I'm not using Sales Navigator for me, you know, the limits here are not really, you know, relevant. And then here, they have global limits saw basically, if you're using LinkedIn integration, you shouldn't be okay, you should definitely be okay. You shouldn't get banned. And, you know, I've been using Captain data and didn't have any issues in terms of LinkedIn, you know, banning me or anything like that. Also, keep in mind that LinkedIn doesn't ban you right away. They give you a warning, and then they say, you can't use LinkedIn for like, a day, come back tomorrow or something like that. So it's not really out Friday,

Mikael Hugg:
and they they suspend Yeah, they suspend your your account, and they also crawl your extensions.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah.

Mikael Hugg:
So So you know, when you're, if you're using a lot of like, for example, Link, linked helper what you know, which used to be pretty good tool back in the days

Artem Daniliants:
yeah

Mikael Hugg:
Then then you really need to start scanning your ex initially, and then they noticed that you have it. And also that was my case. This was like years ago. Yeah. And they suspended my account for like, I think three days.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah

Mikael Hugg:
So and during that time period, I was forced to delete the extension. And then they trademark on again.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, so here, the beautiful part is that you can connect using LinkedIn manually by just providing the session cookie, it's a little bit more technical, but you can basically connect LinkedIn without using any extension. So basically, they will not be able to even detect that you're using extension. But I haven't really had any issues with the extension, maybe they're not able to know as efficiently any more extensions as they could before. Maybe, um, but again, it could be shouldn't be any issues. But once you connected LinkedIn, you can start connecting other sources. So for example, Google Sheets, I have connected, connected Google Sheets as well, then you can also connect other tools lumley's. You can connect for example here. The one that I connected was a polo, where is it? I think it was somewhere. It was over there. Yeah. Did you see? I missed it?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Artem Daniliants:
Oh, there we go. Uh, Paul, this is a little bit of a lag.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah

Artem Daniliants:
So basically, Apollo can be connected using API key. That's what I did. And now that you have this integration set up, now you can go into workflows. And you can start creating workflows, you have multiple options to create workflow. workflow is just the data centric automation, nothing else. But you can create new workflows by just giving it a name and starting from scratch. But I think a lot of people will appreciate just going into templates and finding finding something that, you know, appeals to them. So if you, for example, click on let's just click on for example, LinkedIn. Where the heck, there we go. If you click on LinkedIn, you'll be able to see workflows that use LinkedIn as a source. And it's loading. Let's wait for a sec.

Mikael Hugg:
Alright, to load it, do this. I still have the deal. And it's awesome or are already expired.

Artem Daniliants:
Apsumo. Let's see. I'll check for you. But wild matura Yeah. Okay. So let me see Captain data? Pom Pom? POM? POM? POM? No, I don't think I don't think unfortunately. I don't think they have at least I checked, and I don't think they have the deal. But there is a 14.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, a 399 is way too much. 399 It's way too much per month. You think so now, in my opinion. Yeah. Yeah. Because, you know, with 100 bucks, you get, basically, well, not not all the all the benefits, but, you know, the most important parts with Apollo. So, I mean, like, it's a fourth of the cost.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, I guess I guess it is expensive. But then again, if you're doing if you're doing like serious lead generation, I think it's, it's an acceptable cost. It depends, of course, on the type of company are running and so forth. But I can show you example of things you can do, using basically using basically Captain data. So what you can do is you can mine, LinkedIn for basically leads, that's one thing you can do, you can find leads through Instagram, Twitter, and you can find leads from company profile on LinkedIn. You can also find leads from a company name, you can find leads based on domain and so forth. So let's say your

Mikael Hugg:
How does work? Yep. So basically how this works?

Artem Daniliants:
if you go to if you go for example to LinkedIn, let's say here find leads leads from company profile, right. So here basically what it does, and you can see the workflow steps that 1234 So basically it extracts company profile, then it searches for LinkedIn company, profile employees, and then it extracts their profile data. And then it aggregates in LinkedIn people and companies. So basically, in order to try the workflow, you just click Use workflow. And that template will be copied into your own workflows. And you'll be able to make slight modifications if you need to. So here, there is always some sort of input. And now for example, LinkedIn company URL, if I go to LinkedIn, and search for, you know, whatever company, let's just that a no choose Microsoft, just an example. And then you just copy the URL of the company profile. So you don't have to like be technical, you don't have to know. You don't have to know anything. Besides just knowing how to copy a link, basically. And now that you copied company URL, here it is, you can then proceed. You can then proceed, now it's been copied. You can also import CSV files, for example, in many cases, but let's just go to company employees, then here, you choose an account you want to use. This is account we want to use to connect to LinkedIn. And then here, we can search for employees that match specific keywords. So for example, if you created a list of companies, and like with their LinkedIn profiles, you could type here for example, marketing. And it will search for employees that match this specific keyword, or you can go very, like narrow and you can, for example, search in employee title. So something to do with marketing, and geolocation. Here, you could use, for example, Finland, and that way, it will extract only employee data, whose title matches marketing, and also whose geography set to Finland. So basically, it allows you to mine data. And then you can also use seniority level, and so forth. And you can also exclude your CRM contacts. So if you have CRM system, you can exclude your contacts so that you don't span existing leads. You also can exclude saved leads, viewed leads, and then you can also, of course, tell it, how many results do you want to get? At maximum, let's say, I'm gonna just choose 10, just for the sake of it. And now, basically, after that, aggregate that set now I think we should be able to go I think this is all right. Yes.

Mikael Hugg:
I think you have to click the launch new job or

Artem Daniliants:
an unknown, I think it will appear I just have to let's just use keywords here. And then extract Yes, yes. Aggregate to your DD world, click here to open luncher settings, job name, extract key, extract the employees. And then you can configure data, which like what data you want to extract from those employees. And then you can choose when do you want to run this? Do you want to run this? You know, just one time? Or do you want to run it every week, or every you know, month, or whatever you want to do. And here, if I'm going to just click Launch now, it will automatically launch the task. But the beauty the beauty of Captain data is that you can create workflows that are completely automated. So what you can do, for example, you can create one workflow that searches for companies, for example, in Finland, that are currently seeking digital marketing specialists, so they have like jobs open for digital marketing specialists, you can create a workflow that automatically searches for companies that are currently looking to hire employees in digital marketing field that will automatically go to Google Docs, for example, then you can create a second workflow that automatically fetches information from that Google Doc, and then it extracts leads. And then a third workflow would be adding those leads to your LEM lists and starting a reaching out, you know, like outreach campaign, so basically, um, it could work automatically. So when new entries are added the system you know, automatically does the Reach Out. and so forth. So what you can do is you can basically use it as a continuous, like lead miner, basically. And I think this is the reason why they are, you know, pricing their product. And the way that they do is that in the end, it saves you quite a lot of money, quite a lot of money. But, you know, and I haven't been able to find something that, you know, does things as well, as, you know, custom data, does it. So, from my perspective, I think it's pretty, pretty awesome. And I think we'll look in activities, we'll be able to find, we'll be able to find our data. So here we go. Results. Okay. So we didn't find in those two, like 10, we were, you know, going through 10 employees, we didn't find anyone with matching, matching title marketing. So we should have said, our, we should have set our limits a bit higher. So I think that's, that's the problem

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah. Yeah, like, that's weird, because in Microsoft, they have a lot of marketing. Titles.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, yeah, I think so we can mapping. This is not the one search and boys configure configure parameters. There we go. Yeah. So basically, as you can see, here, you can specify keywords and Boolean here to customise your search. Seniority is displayed here. lifecycle for the search by setting. Yeah, so I think I think here, something didn't. It says here that it performed the level and tasks that yes, and then job it should have. There we go. Display Results. Oh, here it is. There we go. So basically, here we have results. All into data.

Mikael Hugg:
And of course, we're gonna we're

Artem Daniliants:
Yes, of course. Of course. Of course. We're gonna blur all how the results here.

Mikael Hugg:
So then, so you don't really see anything here per se. See that? Yeah. It's just like burglars of the earth. There's a lot of fun. Yeah, data from?

Artem Daniliants:
So. So that's, that's basically it.

Mikael Hugg:
Did you have the emails there as well. And also

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, I think, if I remember correctly, extracts, it extracts definitely emails as well. So you can go to results. And then here. Here, if we go back Fembot image job. LinkedIn profile profile, Id share connection starts URL tracking, I think I think it doesn't have email, you have to have a second automation basically set up where you're getting their email. So since you have here, profile IDs of, of the people, and then you have their LinkedIn profile URL, what you can do next is you can go to templates. And then you can search for Florida, LinkedIn, and then just search for flows that are focused on getting emails. And again, just a sec. Just one second. It's a bit slow, I think. So yeah. So basically, here, connect, extract the, let's see, email, extract link things, user contact info. So basically, what you can do is you can extract, you can use this workflow in order to extract basically phone number, email address, social media account, and so forth. And you can see for example, here, example output, basically what you will get out of it. So from that perspective, what you need to do is you need to set up different and separate workflows. So one workflow to mine the data second workflow, to maybe get the contract and from addition and third workflow may be edit to let LEM list or use a follow, for example, to enrich the data. And there is a lot of like ready made, workflows that are using, for example, LinkedIn LEM list and for example a follow. So from that perspective, it's it's pretty, pretty easy. And I think the best way, the best way, I think, to think about Captain data and how it can help you is that you basically create automation, that using certain specific parameters it minds leads for you and it can mined leads from many different sources, Instagram, GitHub, LinkedIn, obviously, even Google searches. So for example, if you're searching for, for interesting companies, so you could, for example, enrich a list of domains. So if you're interested in specific domains, and you want to enrich that data from LinkedIn, you can connect Google search and then LinkedIn. Or you could, for example, find leads from a specific domain. So if you just have domains of companies, you would want to reach out to you could have a workflow that automatically enriches that data and provides you with a list of email addresses. And the only thing you need to do is just keep adding domains to a document, for example, Google Sheets, and it will constantly, you know, be going and finding finding email addresses and contact information. So in that sense,

Mikael Hugg:
Okay

Artem Daniliants:
In that sense, I think it's pretty, pretty interesting. And if we look at LinkedIn, together, pared away there. Let's see, let's see just a little slow for some reason.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, it's, you know, slow march, but a normal

Artem Daniliants:
Yes, that's, that's for sure. That's for sure. So it also supports obviously, HubSpot, and all that good stuff. But if you, for example, use something very boring LinkedIn paired with Google, Google Sheets, you can, for example, automatically accept LinkedIn invitations and send a welcome message, or you can find leads from LinkedIn search and straight up, push them to Google Sheets, so that later on, you can import them into other other systems that you're using. Or of course, you can just enrich leads using email address. So you can just get additional data from LinkedIn. And you can search LinkedIn posts and push them to Google Sheets. And then later on, you can use that data to enrich those results, and get the email addresses of people who are posting about topics that you know, you care about, or topics that are relevant to your business. So I think that the best way to describe how I use it, I can show you using maybe mero board, I can show you how I use it so that you can see what you can do. Because now it's you know, configuring workflows and seeing basically the data, it doesn't probably make a lot of sense and maybe doesn't seem like a compelling case, considering the steep price, you have to pay for the tool. So let me show you a few things that I do with custom data so that you can see, it could be something that you might want to replicate for your business. So let me just open Miro board so that I can I can show you what I mean. Just a sec, for some reason, the I logged in, and now it doesn't go up. There we go. There we go. There we go. I was just in mirror, there are multiple teams, and I was part of the team that exceeded its free limit already. So this is why I wasn't able to create a new board. Yeah. But basically, once mirror loads, this is basically what I do. And this is how I, you know, make use of Captain data as part of my workflow. So obviously, what I realise, you know, is that for my company, the best way to probably identify my potential clients is searching LinkedIn for job posts. So if I go to LinkedIn, and I just go to job posts, and for example, go here. Jobs and then I searched for something like search engine optimization specialist, for example. And then I pulled
region, let's split Finland, just for the sake of it. So basically, since my company offers growth marketing as a service, and we basically offered the whole team at the price of a single employee, basically, that's like the whole core concept of my company. The best leads for my company are companies that are currently searching for a digital marketing person. Because it's, it's very easy for me to do outreach and tell them like, hey, you know, you're looking to hire a search engine optimization specialist. But for the same price, you could get the full marketing team working for you, analyst, you know, digital marketing specialist who specializes in SEO, paid advertising, social media, whatnot. So what I do is, I create a search, like a job search, for example, SEO, Finland, and then some other criteria, that information then using using Captain data, I push basically to Google Sheets. So Captain data automatically extracts job posts, and it automatically pushes out. Yep. Okay, now seeing the LinkedIn page. Yes. So it pushes job posts to Google Sheets. And then, using those those jump falls, I can create another automation that uses job posts, Google Doc, it basically extracts data about the company

Mikael Hugg:
Now I can see only the motherboard, but there's nothing happening.

Artem Daniliants:
There is nothing happening. I'm I'm drawing like crazy here. I just

Mikael Hugg:
I just see the SEO, I just see the SEO, Finland and Google Sheets. And that's it.

Artem Daniliants:
All right. Can you see me moving? Moving stuff now? Nope. Nope. Okay, that's weird. Oh, my shall every single more effective. Okay. Yes, I think so. For some reason. gluco. Well, this goes, Yeah, this is this is my fail. You know, I haven't been failing that much. Maybe it's my time to do that. So but I see.

Mikael Hugg:
So how does it feel to you like it's it?

Artem Daniliants:
It seemed to me, it's not a good feeling. But I can get used to it. I guess, you know, I must. But But don't you see other post it notes that I have created a job polls?

Mikael Hugg:
No, I just see the SEO Finland and Google Sheets.

Artem Daniliants:
Okay, let me just let me stop and then do it again. Hopefully, this time, it will work. Do you see anything else now?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, no, I know what else is? But yeah, no, no adverse.

Artem Daniliants:
Okay. Okay. So we'll just cut that part, you know, the me failing Park. Cool. So basically, I extract job posts from, like, using Google Docs created from the previous automation workflow, I basically extract company data, right. And then, so that I can make sure that I only get leads from companies that are fitting my criteria. And then I have a company list. From which, using Captain data, I get leads, info. So basically, I get email addresses and so forth and come like I have, by the end of this process, I have company list. I have company list. And I have, you know, leads list basically, list of people and their contact information. Right, and hear company list. And using this. I don't really like to do like email outreach, because I think it's, it's not for everybody, and I haven't yet had like good results with it in my company. So I don't do it. Because we get I know you guys, you get really good.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, yeah. But it's just, you know, you, you can't use any mass automation stuff like that, as a minister, if you have to do one to one email automations. And, yeah, it's, it's so I, well, yeah, we get very good results. But I think it's also just because of our experience. We've been just doing it so much, and we know how to communicate so. So

Artem Daniliants:
I think I think that's probably that's probably the reason for good results. We haven't had so much projects where we were able to use something like like email, you know, outreach automation. So this is why what I do is by the end of the day, I have company list and I have email lists basically from those leads. So I can do remarketing campaigns. So this is what I can do remarketing comm a whole Remar canteen. And what does it why does it like it remarketing? Yeah, I think marks good. Yeah. And now it disappeared completely. What the heck?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah. I think they're all the viewers. Yeah, I think it's fantastic tool we used all the time.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, it's always when you tried to show some high pressure situation, and then, you know, it goes sideways. So basically using Okay, now it's working. So using that, we can push that information to paid marketing channels such as LinkedIn. So for example, in LinkedIn, you could actually create a campaign marketing campaign using a company list. So if you have a Google Sheets or whatever, like CSV file, you can upload it to LinkedIn. And you can tell LinkedIn, like, hey, I want to direct advertising to these companies. So instead of targeting, you know, specific, you know, industry or geolocation, you can use Captain data to mine, you know, companies who are currently searching for a specific earner person so that when you do advertising, and you tell them like, hey, you know, why hire one SEO specialist, when you can hire the whole marketing team at the same, like the same cost. So your advertising usually has much better conversion rate, because you're not directly like sending your message to everybody and their mother, you're only sending message to companies that are currently looking for a position to feel in, you know, in, for example, SEO, and then email list

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah

Artem Daniliants:
Of course, you can mine the company data, but then you can, from that company, you can mined data for the employees that are, for example, in charge of digital marketing. And then you can create an email list, basically, that you can use, again, in your remarketing campaigns, what you can do is you can create marketing campaigns in Facebook and in Google, and so forth. And you can reach out to these people using those paid platforms. And again, instead of targeting everybody in their mother, you will be targeting very, very specific target audience that most likely will be interested in what you have to say. So I think this is, this is like the way I use kind of data.

Mikael Hugg:
So So let's, let's talk a little, just a little bit of LinkedIn that's based on your experience. You know, I was just talking with one of my colleagues from one one SEM and social ads agency, and we were talking about LinkedIn apps and how their conversion campaigns suck.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah

Mikael Hugg:
It sucks so hard.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah

Mikael Hugg:
And it's really hard to get them to work, even though you when you do all the all the the right, you know, tracking stuff, you put the scripts? Are you gonna see that the Google Tag Manager is firing the trigger? Still, you don't get an actual rifle or isn't tracking? So since you're so much more technical, have you figure out the way to fix it? Or are you just using brand awareness campaigns or websites or so on and so LinkedIn

Artem Daniliants:
I think works and LinkedIn, and the only way how I would use this as my test account, obviously, I don't want to show real accounts during our recording. But in LinkedIn, I think the, like the formula for success is following. First of all, if you go to, if you go to Insight tag, you will obviously need to add insight tag to your website, that's like must have of course, then you need to Dorsia then you need to set up conversion tracking, of course, make sense? Nothing really special there. But then I would only advertise to basically list that you have created elsewhere. So basically, if you use Captain data in your mind the data and you create

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, Verizon lists

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, company list or contact list. Advertising to those lists makes quite a lot of sense because it's hyper targeted, but then also, also, you can do remarketing, based on your websites. So if you, for example, have a website, you have traffic to your website, what you can do is you can create remarketing campaigns where you basically target people who have visited your website, or a specific part of your website. In the last, you know, whatever 30 to 180 days, those campaigns work pretty well as well. And also you have local, like, if you have enough data, and this is not, this is not for everybody, because it requires, I think, quite a lot of data. But if you, for example, have enough data, so you can, you know, maybe like 300 conversions or like, whatever, like hundreds of conversions, you can create a look alike audience based on people who converted on your website. So if you have a contact form, and you know, you have 300 conversions, basically, you could create a look alike audience so that you can target people for similar to people who filled out contact form on your website. So that works pretty well. But when it comes to campaign types, I think one campaign type that is really good when it comes to LinkedIn, that I think gets like really good conversions. Is a campaign type, their lead generation campaign type, and then let's go here, for example, document that, yeah. So basically, if you have like a guide, or some some some freebie, basically, that is very valuable. So like, you create, you know, guide for like marketing guide for startups with no money or, you know, lead generation for companies and construction industry, whatever that is, you create a good piece of content. And then you create a document that, for example, and, you know, once you set up everything, instead, instead of just, you know, pointing them to your website, you can actually use lead generation lead generation forums, right. So basically, you can create a form that they will fill out in order to get the material. So instead of going to your website trying to find contact form, they will be able to fill out the form right away on LinkedIn. And once they fill out the form, they will unlock the document so and that form information will go directly into your campaign manager. And it will be located here in lead generation forms. And you can also connect make.com, or you can connect up some data. And you can fetch that information, for example, put them in your outreach flow, whatever that is. So this is what I think was working pretty well. If you have something substantial, like a really good guide, or a case study or video tutorial, or a free course, whatever that is, and you put put it behind lead generation form, I think, I think those are pretty, pretty good. And they convert pretty well. If you talk about like straight up conversion in LinkedIn, I wouldn't do general outreach campaigns. You know, like, of course, if you have money to burn, of course, why not? You know, LinkedIn is as good of a placeholder. Yeah, if you want to burn money, but I think if you want to get conversions, I think you have to do a lot of prep work. And you need to do hyper targeted campaigns, and use, you know, things like lead generation forums, because I'll be honest with you completely honest. During my time, you know, working with LinkedIn, I have only seen, I have only seen a few campaigns that actually bring good results. This is my honest opinion.

Mikael Hugg:
This is my opinion, as well, I've been I've been doing a ton of LinkedIn ads, you know, still we do quite much, but it's by far the most expensive. The most expensive ad platform and also printing bringing more stuff times bar results, you have to do a lot of you know we do excited like you do as well, we create we use lead feeder. So let's begin get the companies that you know come to our or our appliance websites. And then we take those limits, take those companies or make ICP lists and then we upload them into LinkedIn as a platform. And that's the one of the remarketing campaigns what we do and that is pretty using pretty arrived results about like the leads usually cost like between between like four to seven years per lead. I mean, that's and I think that's pretty, pretty expensive.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, but they are no, it depends, of course, what's your what's your cell? Right once?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, but it's still various in that that part if especially if you have b2b stuff you can go even even higher than that. That's yeah. It's okay to pay seven years or six years for lead if it's actually the warm one. But from LinkedIn, they are not very warm, even though they, you know, take your stuff, like, download materials or something else. That's my opinion. But, yeah, it's in other parts in his exon to get more leads, for sure.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. So basically, what I can say in order to kind of wrap it up, I didn't want to go too much into like, technical details. And maybe if you guys are interested, we could do another session where I go, like really like into detail and show you specific workflows. But I think Captain data excels at mining data from different sources, and then enriching that data using different tools such as a pull up, and then preparing, like good lists for you to do whatever may be outrage, maybe marketing and so forth. If you think about the price, I think I do agree with you. It's a bit much I think, if it was like 99, you know, Europe, you know, or something a month all that will be

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, that'd be insanely good deal

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, I think that will be like a really good deal. But with 400 a month, I think that's quite a lot, like quite a lot, maybe, you know, we can try and get Captain data developers, so maybe they can rethink their pricing structure. But as you can see, in my account here, here, you can see that my tier is $99. I paid only once. And I have 25,000 tasks. I can run a month unlimited workflows, only one account and then, you know, basically, it's a very generous account. So yeah,

Mikael Hugg:
This is like robbing. Yeah. Yeah. That's such a cool deal. I am. I'm super pleased that I didn't notice that one, because I follow ApSumo quite much. And you know, they have such a good deals. We got the Uber Suggest. I think we paid like 499 or something for the like, just like forever plan. So it was crazy. Good day, by the way, use Uber as I just now like, basically every day, just a fantastic tool. And that was because of AppSumo. So yeah, absolutely. Great. Great than that, in my opinion on, you know, regarding the captain data, I think that's a very good general data scraping tool. Seems pretty legit. Especially if you are getting leads from Instagram, on all those different media, like social media accounts. I think that's like a very good scraping tool. Data mining tool for sure. The brightest, such a high salt, such high so that it really receipts, users to all agencies like us on NTRs. Yeah, who are alright to pay. It's just because we do it for work. And, you know, we get it, then 100 times back, so it's alright. But I can't really see anyone else. Not like normal company, you using it? Because it's not the only tool that you use, you have to use other tools as well. So then you were easily when you have those prizes, you end up paying 1000s and 1000s per month. And then then in that scenario, you don't, you don't want to spend 400 a month for for that sort of software because you get pretty close results with one 1/4 of the price.

Artem Daniliants:
I agree. I agree. It's definitely definitely something I wouldn't pay for $400 a month, but obviously since I got it in a AppSumo deal, you know, it's just like no brainer, so yeah, but

Mikael Hugg:
Oh yeah, that's like just taking Money

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, think Yeah

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, like do gas. Take it, take it and give it Give it to me

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, it's like Futurama, right? Shut up and take my money. You know, that kind of deals? Yeah

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah

Artem Daniliants:
But I would be really curious to find other tools similar to this that are more affordable. Because even with Apollo, I don't think the extension can actually successfully mine data automatically in the background when you need it. So I think it works as an active extension, but you cannot create workflows that are working in the background.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, I don't think so. Either. They have workflows there abouts. I haven't been using them. So I can't really say like any kind of bots also, like for our business, because we are not in volume business.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, of course

Mikael Hugg:
By any means. Our clients, because b2b stuff, and it's very, it's not just by predicts, and that's it. It's always like consulting or, or like very complex. Sales, funnels, what our clients have to sell. So we need to be very accurate than our lead, at least when we are generating them. So we actually have to go through them. It's not helping you, we're just mass producing email is, and all that stuff, because there's so many unrelated companies that, you know, it just, yeah, it's just not working for our clients. And so that's why we haven't been, we don't need lead automated workflows. But I get that there's a lot of companies like this for their sauce companies that, you know, they just need to conduct so much. So many companies all the time. So they're just like, Fuck it, let's just upload 25,000 rolls a month, and let's bomb them with with all their guts. That's another, that's another area. So for them? I think that's a no brainer deal. You basically have to compare that to zoom info. Yeah. So it's quite close to that. And I've been used to zoom in, also, year or two back. But dude, it cost like $2,000 per month? Or was it Wow, 125,000 Sorry, 2500 a month. So 2500 a month, something like that. So when you it's like 20 30,000 a year, you get access to call the data, I think that's phenomenally huge amount of money, it was either was huge for us as soil. And yeah, we will use it for one funny one a year. And then when when they start using it, just because so if we can see, if we started using it, we actually started using seamless, we started using seamless, which was basically a zoom in for Bucha cheaper, they cost like 500 a month. So and these are always an annual plus Yeah, I'll always do the annual budget, which I really hates, because, you know, it's really hard to dry it up and try to mountain but the seamless was so much, it was so close to zoominfo that's kind of made sense to just use seamless. But then we found Apple while which is like 100 bucks. So you know, and it still delivers basically the same stuff. They don't do the like seamless they are using AI to manufacture email so then they create like 10 different emails then they send pings to all these email servers and and you know if they this or you know, response, then they're not okay, this is most likely an accurate working email. That is a good benefit of seamless, but I mean, it's not 400 euro a month worth more when you compare it to Apple, which is just like you go to lane it that says navigator and just import leads. Only thing that you know, just because me and Apollo said you can only get 25 You know, 25 and 2525 you can get get take 100 100 or 1000 from this trade, but it's not the Apollo's fault. It's just Linda's fault because they they do it in South Africa. They just saw you 25

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, that's true.

Mikael Hugg:
That's a little rant.

Artem Daniliants:
No, it's It's good. It's good. It's good. And maybe next time and I think will be awesome if next time there was a tool maybe that you use and I have never used maybe you could show that off and maybe I couldn't be in the you know in the question, question asking seat because obviously, I think the best benefit

Mikael Hugg:
Oh yeah

Artem Daniliants:
Of doing this is that we learn both of us learn like new things like I learned about Apollo from you. And I started using it. And maybe, you know, there were something interesting in notion that you were interested in since our last conversation. So I think it'd be cool if at some point that you could share as well, so that I could be, you know, just sitting and taking notes.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, I would love to share, and I need to find a way to show it. You know, because the tools that we use, we use for our clients of work a lot. So it says, like, full off, very NDA stuff. When I show my screen, it says like blur, blur, blur, blur. And those that's fun to watch. So I need to find a way if I can just be you take test account or something like that.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, I was thinking that maybe like a trial account, right. So like trial account that doesn't have any data, I think that will be probably the best way to go around it. Because Oh, yeah, you don't have any kind of data, you're not paying for anything, then you can just kill off the account after the recording.

Mikael Hugg:
And also, what I can do is I can also draw you the the strategies, how we generate leads and how we, yeah, like, Oh, I was just using a mirror board a lot, just tried to make sure that it actually works. So so that I think that's a really valuable to our audience as well. And you know, guys, usually, it's our them's, you know, responsibility to say that, let us know, if you like the content, and what do you want to know, next, and all that. But now I can take that, that part. And I gotta say that, if you guys want to see these proven, proven tactics and strategies, what we use to generate leads, and now I'm talking like from our site, because that's what we do. I'm more than happy to show you, we do mostly b2b, I think this is an Well, the stuff that we do is always applicable to B to C, for sure. Because we the C is so much easier in Legion side. But yeah, we do b2b. So this little more like, variations, and the files are longer, but I'm more than happy to show undraw the strategies, what we do and also share my ideas and thoughts on what works or what not. So, yeah, leave, you know, leave those things in the comments and subscribe, like, do you know, you know, algorithm likes, its we like it. And the more we get, we use and likes, the better stuff we gonna show maybe we can take sometimes, you know, another agents did to our guests. I don't know, there's a lot of stuff we can do. Yeah, but only as we grow,

Artem Daniliants:
Of course, but we'll keep going. And I think the benefit for both of us is that we keep learning new things. And we like talking about this anyway. So we always think like, hey, why not record it? Since we do it anyway? And you know, maybe help somebody else?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah

Artem Daniliants:
Learn something new and, you know, share some of this, you know, wins and losses that we had and things that we learned along the way. But without making I don't have any losses. We just just just victories right, like only victories. Yeah, except losses.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, I've never. I've never experienced loss in my life. And I've always heard about the concept that but never experienced that.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, well, you're very fortunate, I guess your lead generation automation has 100% hit ratio.

Mikael Hugg:
We had 150% hit rate.

Artem Daniliants:
So basically, so basically, you reached out to people and they invited more people and you know, talked about your company, so that you had well 150 I think that's something to strive for. Definitely. Anyway, and hopefully, you learned something new. And again, we're working on making this format more interesting, more insightful. And we'll be testing different things. So bear with us. But most importantly, as Mikael said, just let us know, if you like what we do, if you have any questions we'd love to, we'd love to basically learn more. And now now, because I had a crazy idea for an for a forehand for a format. And I know this sounds really weird, because we should have taken this offline. But what are you seeing?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, I'm so happy that you know, we always do our planning when we record so so like I think it gives the authenticity or something.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, I guess I guess you know, but what do you think? And I just, it just struck me as like holy shape. This could be the best thing. Ever, like the best format ever? Okay, what do you think if we go to AppSumo, every week, we found a cool tool there. And we invite the maker of the tool to present it to us. So we can ask questions, we can learn passively, they get free visibility. And, you know, we learn about some new tools that you can start using right away.