Create Stunning HTML5 Banners in Minutes: Introducing BannerBoo

Michael Heina:
It wasn't intuitive, it wasn't easy. So I decided I would like to have a own project, or you need, just choose the most appropriate, uh, banner in banner bbu and create a set of ads with this banner.

Mikael Hugg:
So basically, you can create your banners in, in different dimensions.

Michael Heina:
They, they are done by, by professional designers, by animators.

Artem Daniliants:
What do you think is the killer feature?

Michael Heina:
You can click on the color palette and you see how the banner changes.

Mikael Hugg:
And, uh, gotta say it's a very good idea.

Mikael Hugg:
This is very special, uh, episode because we are having a startup founder from Ukraine. Michael, it's awesome to have you here. And, uh, I've been already trying out your, your, uh, business, your, uh, your app, and, uh, gotta say it's a very good idea. So I already have a good, good vibe. Uh, so I'm very glad to, to have you here. And, and thanks, Artem. That's you phone and put Michael, uh, together with us.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah

Michael Heina:
Thanks, Mikael. Thanks, Artem. Uh, I'll be happy to answer all the questions and, uh, I hope that I can help people who are watching this, uh, this podcast that we can help to bring some fresh ideas to develop their business. And yeah, let's start. I

Mikael Hugg:
Have a, I I have a first question immediately. How did you come up with this idea and, uh, and now that you've been creating this business in Ukraine, how the whole situation has, has, has been, uh, in, in your workplace? How's the life there?

Michael Heina:
So, like, generally the situation is tough, you know, about, uh, what's happening in Ukraine right now?

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah

Michael Heina:
Uh, many people, uh, they left Ukraine. They are right now in Europe, in different countries. But, uh, I decided to stay. I decided to stay. I had the right to leave the country as well, because I have three children. I have three daughters, right. And, uh, wow, it wouldn't be a problem to, to leave, to leave Ukraine. But, uh, I, I have family here. I have my older uncle, uh, aunt, uh, and many like brothers, sisters. So I decided to stay, and, uh, I decided to, to help our economics, uh, to help Ukraine as well. Nice. Uh, to survive in this, uh, hard times. I moved from Kiyv, it's a capital of Ukraine. I moved from Kiyv to view, it's, uh, western region of Ukraine. It's, it's a bit quiet here, so, uh, less bombing. So easier

Mikael Hugg:
To focus on, on everyday. I hope everything

Michael Heina:
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. But I hope that everything will be fine. Hope that the war will end soon, and, uh, so easier. I, I'm sure that you claim the win.

Artem Daniliants:
Well, that's, that's, I think that's, that's a given, you know, I, I definitely think we all root for Ukraine and the victories, I think, around the corner. And of course, every day is very hard. But, you know, it's people like you who are pushing, who are grinding still in this horrible situation. But, you know, of course, you know, there is a lot of information about the Ukraine, but what we're interested in, of course, in, you know, is in your company and in your idea in, in you, right? As a founder. So, um, you know, how did you come up with the, with the idea for the business?

Michael Heina:
Yeah, that was interesting. You know, many startups, um, are born from the needs Yeah. Of the company, from the needs of people. In my case, I, I had run a company my own, uh, production studio called Art Depot. And, uh, we created different websites, uh, graphic designs, uh, and work with many clients in Ukraine and abroad. And, uh, um, we created, uh, advertising campaigns as well. Mm-hmm like many ad campaigns. Uh, so we used different tools. It was, uh, maybe you, you can remember Macromedia Flash,

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, of course

Michael Heina:
Was a Adobe Flash where you could create, uh, nice animated banners, but then, um, apple deprecated Flesh. Yeah, of course. Because of, uh, some reasons of, uh,

Mikael Hugg:
The security stuff. Yeah.

Michael Heina:
Yeah. And HT five, yeah. And HT five format, uh, began to rise. And, um, so there was a need to create H five banners. And, uh, I tried to create some ads from my studio, and I run Google Web Designer. It was like 2014, 2015. And, uh, with my big experience, because, uh, I'm myself, uh, designer, art director, and, uh, uh, I used Photoshop from, from the Italy to, to 2000. Uh, like, I, I don't remember, like first versions of Photoshop. Yeah. First versions of Congo. So I have big, I have big experience in, uh, graphic interfaces and graphic programs. But, uh, as I run Google Web Designer, it was so difficult. Like, it wasn't intuitive, it wasn't easy. So I decided why not? I, I could create, uh, a nice, uh, a nice, uh, online based platform, like cloud-based platform, but people could create HTML five e t ads with easy, without any problem with many templates.

Mikael Hugg:
So, so building your old platform is easier than trying out and using the, the old existing one , that, that, that is a testimony of bad interface.

Michael Heina:
No, I'am, uh

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah, yeah, yeah,

Michael Heina:
Yeah. I am entrepreneur and, uh, uh, like being with this production studio and working with clients, you know, every time you need to, you need to create a new website every time you need to, to contact with the clients. And after like seven, 10 years, we were a bit, uh, tired from this, uh, uh, routine. So it was, uh, something in man Mind that, uh, I would like to have our own project, uh, to build it, to develop it, to bring some, uh, uh, to bring some value to customers. And I, I think that it was like you, you know, uh, the good moment and, uh, boom, I can create, uh, something that, uh, I would like to, to develop in the future. So we decided, uh, one, one mistake was that we didn't, uh, we didn't dedicate, uh, much time because it was like a side project.

Artem Daniliants:
Yes.

Michael Heina:
We continued to working with the clients, continued to create websites, and bebo was like a side project. But in couple of years, um, I went to Georgia to pei mm-hmm, uh, to an international conference. And then we took, um, like we were, we were among the fi, um, like in the finish among the winners, and we won, uh, and we won a participation in startup Wise Guys, it's Estonia startup Accelerator, one of the biggest

Mikael Hugg:
That's right. One of the best.

Michael Heina:
Yeah. And, uh, from this moment, from this moment, we start to grow, and we, we dedicated all our time to Vander. Uh, I'm not dealing, uh, almost not dealing with my web studio. Uh, I have my, I have my partner who is dealing with all the clients and creating websites, but I'm, uh, 99%, uh, I dedicate my time to, to BannerBoo together with my co-founder. She is a girl, Naji, and, um, she's a girl and developer, like, wow, cto, chief Technical Officer.

Artem Daniliants:
That's awesome.

Michael Heina:
And, uh, yeah. Yeah. So we have a great tandem. And, um, also like, uh, if you talk about founders, like there is a big problem, uh, in startups because like, it should be, you know, like synergy. And in our case, it is, um, bright, the synergy between us, because I'm, I'm more enthusiastic, I'm more idealistic, and, uh, maybe, uh, not so disciplined, but not dear. You know, it's, you need to do, so it's, it's only an idea you need to do, like practical things. So like, we have to, we combined our strong sides, so, and it goes well, actually, it goes well. And, uh, I'm sure that everything will be fine in the future as well, so we can, we can become a big international company that brings many, like much value to, to our customers.

Mikael Hugg:
Uh, for all the listeners and viewers, uh, who are, who are, you know, from this, this, uh, episode, I just wanna share the screen and, and explain a little bit of, you know, what's the, what's the thing actually, you know, look like, and, and the, the thing. So, so basically you can create your banners very easily, uh, in different di uh, in, in different dimensions. And let's take, uh, for example here, uh, this horse one. Um, so hold on. There we go. So you can animate your stuff, uh, whatever you want.

Artem Daniliants:
I think we don't see the Oh, you don't see it with us?

Mikael Hugg:
Ah, yeah. Well, because I think you shared the tab. My, yeah,

Artem Daniliants:
I can see

Mikael Hugg:
We can share the tab. Yeah, now we go. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There we go. Yeah, good point. There we go. Yeah, good point. So, well, it just took Tylenol too load, so nothing, nothing was used. So, so then you gonna create these different kind of, uh, banner ads here. And, uh, they look perfect and, and good with, uh, whatever dimensions that I already went and, and played a little bit, you know, around with this one. So, so I already started to build stuff here, and, uh, so far I think, you know, the experience is good, but maybe you can tell me, tell us more about the, you know, how it works and, and, and maybe you can share your own screen if you have something to show.

Michael Heina:
Uh, yeah, yeah, no problem. I can share my screen and, uh, yeah. So it's ready?

Artem Daniliants:
Yes. Can

Michael Heina:
You see it? Yeah.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. We can see. Perfect.

Michael Heina:
And mm-hmm. So, uh, it's like, uh, dashboard looks like, so when you log into banner view, you can see your dashboard. And, uh, here you ca you have workspaces, and workspace is dedicated to, um, like brands, you can call it brands because, um, almost, uh, like 80, 90% of our customers are, uh, digital marketers and digital agencies, small and, uh, and big. And, uh, they are working with clients. So that's why you can create, uh, you can create, uh, every workspace for the new client. And in every workspace there are folders, for example, like you, as you can see here. And when you go inside the folder, you can see your, you can see your banner ads in different dimensions. Uh, we have all, um, all popular dimensions, uh, for Google Ads. We have, uh, all popular sizes for Facebook, Instagram, LinkedIn, Twitter, so almost for every, uh, social network. And we continue to, to add them as well. Uh, from here you can, uh, you can edit the ads, and you can see the size, because in some cases, size is crucial. When you go to Google Ads, they have some restrictions. So here you can see all the ads, and when you click, for example, on edit button, you go to the banner editor. But, um, if you will start from scratch, you need to click on create banner button, and then you go to this, um, panel where you can choose your size, where you can, uh, choose your industry. And we have many of them. And people are saying that our banner and template are the best on the market because they love, they are done by professional designers. They, they are done by, by professional designers, by animators. And, um, so when you click, you can, um, when you roll over this icon, you can click the animation inside, and we are actually, we are proud of, uh, of those templates. So you can start by choosing a template, or you can start by, uh, entering your own dimension. It could be, it could be every dimension like this one. So it, it doesn't matter. You can create from scratch any, any size you need. So when you click on edit, um, if you would like to, to edit your template, uh, here you can see like the interface is very similar to like, common graphic interfaces, for example. Like, yeah, I was

Mikael Hugg:
Just thinking about the camera.

Michael Heina:
Speaker 0 (00:13:05) - So, and, uh,

Artem Daniliants
If, if you've been using Canva, you probably can use this very quickly.

Michael Heina:
Yeah, exactly. And people are comparing us to Canvaa, but it's not true. Cause uh, we are, we are different platform. We are more, more niche solution for marketers and, uh, professional advertisers, because in Canva, you don't have options to create HTML five ads and to download ads for, um, advertising networks. And in our case, you can, you can download ads for all popular ad networks in the world, like ad form ad folks, different trade desks, bigger ads, et et cetera. So many affiliate marketers are, are also using our platform. Ah, so we are different. And, uh, but at all in general, of course, it's like you can, uh, you can select the graphics, you can, you can, uh, choose your font, you can choose, uh, you can change the color. So it's, it's very similar. And we tried to, to do it very intuitive. So on the left, uh, on the left panel, you can see, um, you can see your templates, you can, um, you can put your text on this stage.

Michael Heina:
You can choose from, uh, different, um, photo stocks, like hand Splash, pizza Bay pixels. And we have also our own developed graphic that we are adding constantly to Banner bbu. Then also we have, uh, option to add the video. Also, we have two libraries from Pax Pizza Bay, and also you can paste YouTube videos as well. It is nice. Uh, then we have, uh, audio, audio files. Uh, so you can, uh, you can create, uh, for example, stories for Instagram or Facebook. You can create with, uh, with your own audio. And also when you click on upload button, you can upload your own assets like, uh, uh, roster graphics, uh, vector files. In SVG format, you can upload your own MP4 video or M v three audio files. And also nice feature you can input from, uh, p SD file. So it'll be like, um, it'll be uploaded here, and you will have automatic layers. Then you can just click smart animation button, and the whole battery will be animated automatically.

Mikael Hugg:
Oh, wow.

Michael Heina:
And then the big section, uh, like nice feature, nice feature is the color, clearly. And you can click on the color palette and you see how the banner changes in, uh, in different colors. So it, it's very nice for, and for example, if you create, uh, different ads for affiliated marketing, or you would like to experiment and, uh, for example, create some AB testing and see how people are reacting to different varie there. So it's a, it's a nice, uh, so you have the smart, and then we have, uh,

Mikael Hugg:
So you heard the smart animation button there, so doesn't mean that when you're just uploading, you said like PSD file, um, and it just automate to, does the animations automat,

Michael Heina:
You can create it. Yeah. Let me, let me explain very, very quickly. So when you preview the Ready template, you can see the animation is already done, but I can kill the animation here, and like you created it from scratch. So we, we don't have any animation here, as you can see. And when you click on smart animation button, you have different, uh, uh, you have diff different animation styles. For example, zoom left. When we click, you see that, uh, the older layers were, um, like organized on the timeline. So when you click on the preview button, you will see the banner is already, the banner is already animated, and you can, uh, you can switch, you can change the animation styles. I don't know, for example, slide up. So when you click on click on preview, you'll see how it's sliding from the, from the top. And you can easily change any effect just by clicking, just by clicking on the animation in, for example, this how the animation starts. So we can, uh, click on special offer and tell him, not slide up, but say left. So when you click on preview, it will be faded from the left side. So it, it's really, it's really easy, very convenient, uh, like con convenient too.

Mikael Hugg:
And what was it, the case? And,

Michael Heina:
Uh, let's, back to the left. Yeah,

Mikael Hugg:
No, I was just about to, uh, ask that, that now that if I want to make different sizes, like d different dimensions, you said, you know, does it, do I get it all automatically? Doesn't size a automatically. Yeah, exactly. Does it? Thank you. So is there an automatic recession or, or how do I have to do with manual?

Michael Heina:
So, yes, for this moment, uh, for this moment, we are developing a banner generator. It'll be ready like in one month.

Mikael Hugg:
Nice. Okay.

Michael Heina:
And there, you'll, you'll be able to create, uh, you will be able to create the set, the whole set of banners from, uh, like from one dimension. Wow. So you, you will see like all banners on the screen. But for this moment, we have a feature called, uh, smart size. And, uh, it means that you can, uh, for example, if you want, uh, a square banner, you can change the size like 300 to 300. And, uh, it'll change, it'll change the size of the template automatically, or 300 to 600, for example. So as you can see it, it changed and it automatically resides the layout. So you need to,

Artem Daniliants:
You still need to adjust it yourself a little bit. A bit, yeah.

Michael Heina:
You still need to adjust. Yes, because it was, uh, it was grand format and we transformed it to, to a vertical one. But if you will change, like slightly change the size from 300 to 500, for example, like, it'll be, uh, like, it, it'll be very easy. And, uh, yeah. Like, you don't need to, to change it, uh, a lot.

Mikael Hugg:
So when you're getting the, the, um, automated, uh, resizing feature, that's gonna be a killer, killer feature, because I have to say that I, I always struggle a lot when we need to do a lot of different, different ad uh, ad sizes. And it's something that I really, really hate in, you know, from bottom of my heart and just takes forever to do. Uh, so, uh, I, I, I think I, I will become your client because this is such a, such a good tool.

Michael Heina:
Okay. Okay. Yeah, it'll be ready. Actually, it is, uh, ready, but we are testing it right now, so it's better mode. Uh, and uh, when we will finish, its testing, it'll be available to, to the

Artem Daniliants:
Customers. Wow, that's awesome. Can wait, that's awesome. Yeah. Can wait. That's really good. Just maybe a few questions, you know, since I'm a little bit, uh, more, uh, maybe like into tech stuff. Uh, so you support, um, APM ads as well, right? Google Ads? Yeah, exactly that. That's awesome. That's awesome.

Michael Heina:
A and B A a,

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. A B, yes.

Michael Heina:
A M B A B H channel.

Artem Daniliants:
Mm-hmm. A A M P. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Got that. Uh, confused. So that's, that's pretty awesome. But if, if you think about your service, right, about your SaaS service, like what do you think is the killer feature?

Michael Heina:
Uh, in our case, uh, this is nice animation panel, uh, because it does, it, it gives really, really professional abilities to, to animate your ad. This is like the first killer feature. And the second is it's actually to produce, uh, to have ability to produce H two five and emp HTML ads because, uh, not every graphic editor, uh, has, has this ability. Yeah. Uh, the second killer feature will be ai, AI based, uh, art Builder, where you can just put your, um, you can just put your keyword and all the ads will be generated automatically with marketing copy and with the images and all you need, just choose the most appropriate, uh, banner and edit it in, ban in banner blue, and create a set of ads with this banner. And this feature is already developed and we also testing it. So, I guess also,

Artem Daniliants:
I was going to, I was going to ask like, like when you gonna talk about, you know, integrating Chat G P T? Yeah. What, what, what is the AI engine? What's you're gonna use? Is it, is it gonna be a chat g PT or I think chat G P T now, I guess

Michael Heina:
That very, yes. Very soon in the text, uh, in this text option, you will have a few where you can generate your, uh, marketing copy from the ad. Like, it's, it's not, it's not the big problem to, to create

Artem Daniliants:
It. Yeah. But I think behind the scenes you're using chat G P T api, right? Like everybody else . Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Exactly. But I think, I, I think what would be really awesome, and maybe this is a feature request from me, cause then if you had such a feature, I think it'd be just amazing if you can give a URL of a product page or a landing page and then your system would fetch the data

Mikael Hugg:
Yes. And use that as an input, uh, to create the banner so I could get started by just giving url. I think that'd be pretty awesome. Again, just

Michael Heina:
I guess that we, we can do, do this, I guess that we can do this as well. It's, it's not a big, like, it's not a big deal.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. But I think that would be kind of like a wow moment. You just put URL and boom, you have wonderful banner created. You didn't do anything. And especially with your templates, I think your templates as already mentioned, are really good. They look very good. I kind of feel like if you mix your great templates with, um, you know, ai, I think it's gonna be pretty awesome.

Mikael Hugg:
So to me, the w effort comes in Mila, when the, uh, the automation comes with, uh, banner sizes. So, oh, I can't wait that one because it's just a, that's a huge pain point. Yeah.

Michael Heina:
Actually, I, I can try, but I would like to show also just, just a couple of seconds. Yes. Uh, a big library, because it's also like a huge edition cuz you have ready buttons here, uh, lines, charts, different, uh, nice animation, uh, and, uh, like special effects. For example, you can, uh, we have already animations, like walking Godzilla or just, uh, maybe, maybe I can, I can delete this one and place it here. So it's like, and you can easily animate it for, for example, you, you can slide it from the, from the right screen. So it'll go through the, through the banner I am or some nice, uh, eastern based animated features. And we are adding them constantly as well as ready badges. It's like, uh, you can, uh, you don't need to create it by yourself, but you can just put it on your banner. And it is already has nice animation where you can change your percentage for mega sales. So many, many ready animation features. And it also could be a great addition and they can, um, can speed up the process, uh, of the banner fish. And just a couple, couple days ago we added some nice, uh, special effects like flying clouds or, uh, some, uh, snow, like this one or stuffs. So it's, it, it's really, really nice fish. And people, like, people love it.

Mikael Hugg:
Can you customize them? Awesome. So, so not, not particularly the stars and stuff, but the ones that you showed the banners there, can you customize them, uh, from the templates? Like where you had this like sales? Yeah, like those, like editing text, no, yeah. Graphic obviously. Yeah. But like graphics. Exactly what, uh, so just a color or you can change the,

Michael Heina:
What you can do is, yeah, you can change, you can change on the colors. And, uh, what

Mikael Hugg:
About the shapes?

Michael Heina:
Like this one? And you can also put your own, put your own number, like 70% discount. No, you can't, uh, you can't edit shapes.

Mikael Hugg:
Okay. For the moment.

Michael Heina:
Maybe in the future, we'll, we'll add like, SVG editor, but it's SVG graphics doesn't, uh, lose quality. Oh. So you can resize it as you want and it, it'll look great. And it's good when you create, for example, p HD videos or, uh, some Facebook or Instagram stories and it, it doesn't lose in quality. Yeah. And it looks, looks good.

Artem Daniliants:
Okay. That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, maybe we can go back to your company and, uh, your story a little bit, and maybe you can tell, you know, like when, when you got this idea for this company, like, did you already have your technical founder? Did you already know each other? Where you working at the web agency together already?

Michael Heina:
Just, uh, one last thing, please, please. Like a couple of days ago, we started a new format, a new format called, uh, scroll Stoppers. Yeah. And, you know, it's like native Facebook, uh, newsfeed. Yeah. Uh, when you scroll through the Facebook newsfeed or Instagram newsfeed, then you got some nice, uh, pop-up animation mmm. And it catches the attention of customers. And actually some guys from AppSumo asked us about this, uh, about this feature, about this templates. And in one week we created about 30 certain new templates, scroll stoppers, and, and it's really, it's really nice, nice addition to our templates library. And you can find them in social media templates in scroll stopper category.

Artem Daniliants:
Nice. That's awesome. Those look like they're like popping from the screen. So I guess that's the reason why they're called Scroll stoppers. So people stop and pay attention. Yeah. But can you tell, can you tell a little bit about like, how, how did you go, uh, get started? Did you like self-fund yourself completely? Like w was it just you and your technical founder? Like you had an idea like what's next?

Michael Heina:
Um, actually regarding founder Nadia Micro co-founder, CT O, she worked in my company, uh, as a programmer, as full stack developer because she did like front end backend she did, uh, coding and also, uh, programming. And, uh, then she became my partner. So she is no more like, uh, art Depo Worker, art Depo, art Depo employee. But, uh, we started this company together. Uh, so I, I didn't, uh, I didn't look specially for the co-founder. So it was like na, natural, natural process that, that we created this tool.

Artem Daniliants:
Awesome. Did, did you bootstrap your business? Did you like cell phone fund yourself?

Michael Heina:
Mostly? Mostly, yes, because we got some fundings. Uh, for example, as we were in, uh, startup wise guys, we got, uh, not so much money, but it was good for the, for the start. Uh, but, uh, like two years before we, we used our own resources. We, um, like we used our time and, uh, I invested from my, uh, production studio. I reinvested some money, uh, in BannerBoo. Uh, but we didn't raise, uh, big rounds and we are not sure that we would, that we would like to do it. But we are still considering, we're still considering, it really depends how we will, uh, how we will grow, uh, this year. Cuz uh, after this we will, we will decide if we will raise some, some bigger amount, like, um, 300,000 or 405,000 for, for the inaudible. Like to grow, to grow faster.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah. Now, now I, I noticed that you already have a pretty good, decent amount of, uh, monthly visitors, uh, organically like 10,020 5,000 depending on the month. So what is your secret? How did the measure get, uh, this amount of traffic

Michael Heina:
I have? Yeah. I'm, I'm marketing myself

Artem Daniliants:
Of Course

Michael Heina:
I am, you know, uh, the, the startup found that it need to be like, ideally, uh, I would only fundraise and do some, uh, communications with the client, with the partners. But in the beginning, you need to, to know everything from SEO to, uh, email marketing to paid advertising, because you are like two people. We started just two of us. And, um, of course, you need to know many things because you don't have money at the beginning and you can't hire professional marketers and professional SEO specialist. I'm a lecturer in Ukrainian Internet Academy, and, uh, I'm talking about design, I'm talking about content marketing and many, many marketing things. So, uh, actually we have about, uh, from 15 to 20,000 visitors per month. Yeah. And, uh, we, we achieved it thanks to U optimization and, uh, I did it myself. So we created articles, we created landing pages, we optimized our content, we created some back links. Uh, it's a, it's a big, big work. Uh, it's a long process.

Mikael Hugg:
Uh, did you also use email marketing? Uh, or just seo email

Michael Heina:
Marketing? Yes, we are, we are using it as well. Not, not for seo, but for our news.

Mikael Hugg:
Yeah, yeah, of course.

Michael Heina:
So we are creating, uh, newsletters. We are telling our customers about updates, about unfresh articles slash YouTube videos, and we have, we have a good YouTube channel, and, uh, we just started to, to develop it and to create, uh, more videos and customers like it. They're, they're asking us to create more and more. And it, it's also part of, of the optimization, because if you have many videos with the keywords, uh, you definitely will be on Google search results and people will come, uh, to your webpage as well from, from this source as well.

Artem Daniliants:
That's great. What, what about, um, AppSumo, I'm, you know, eager to hear, like, why did you, why did you decide to go to AppSumo? Like usually startups go in order to get some, maybe initial users because they're selling lifetime licenses. AppSumo takes a huge chunk of the money, and in many cases it's startups use it as a way to kind of get initial users, get some initial reaction. But I think you guys are, like, past that point. I think you have proven yourself, you have already paying customers. So could you maybe tell a little bit, like, what, what was the reason for, you know, approaching AppSumo?

Michael Heina:
We are for the third time actually on Abso Nice. And the first time we were in 2020. 2021. Okay. It was our first time. And, and the second time was during, uh, two weeks du during Black Friday.

Artem Daniliants:
Mm-hmm. last year. Mm-hmm

Michael Heina:
And now we decided to go again because, um, you know, every step up the startup could be good. It, uh, it can have a good solution, but if no one knows you, it's, uh, like it's gonna die. It doesn't matter. Like, you need to get some attention, you need to get some visibility, what this in the world. And, uh, absu is one of the best, uh, ways because, um, when you run a campaign on AppSumo, you're getting many back links. You are getting menu articles and reviews about you and the number of backlinks grow exponentially. And, uh, what we, it's strange, but, uh, we noticed that after the first step Sumo campaign, we got some, uh, raising in our monthly recurring revenue. So despite that, those are like lifetime deals. Yeah. Maybe because of, uh, because of bigger popularity, because word of mouth, we got many customers. Yeah.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. I think word of mouth, definitely.

Michael Heina:
Yeah. Our master recurring revenue began, uh, began to grow. And, uh, like it's not only about money. Uh, we are raising some, some good amount of money from EPMO as well. They, they, they're raising of course, much more, like 70% more, uh, 70, 80%. Uh, but in artists, it's also a good amount that allows us to, to work and to pay salaries, uh, to our employees. And yeah, Russell, I was afraid for, for, for the first time, I was afraid that like we can gather many Ltd customers who, who are not paying constantly, and it could be a problem, but, uh, the reality is that there are so many clients in the world. There are millions and millions of people. And, uh, I don't know, it's like you can read them in Germany, in, uh, great Britain, in United States, in India. So we have customers from all over the world, from Vietnam, from Malaysia, from Kazakhstan, and many, many countries. So I guess there are so, so many, uh, so many people who, who can be our customers, who can, um, who can run ad campaigns on Google, on Facebook or Instagram. So I guess the market is, the market is very big. And if you will do everything right and if, if you will, uh, bring the value to customers, you, you can do it.

Artem Daniliants:
Okay. Uh, what about your, like company size? Are your, like you have enough, uh, recurring revenue to cover all the expenses. How big is your team? Currently?

Michael Heina:
We have five, five people in the team. Okay. So it's not so big.

Artem Daniliants:
That's awesome. Yeah,

Michael Heina:
We have, we have five people. We have more, um, we have more employees, but they're not like, uh, they're not in our team, but they, they're working on, uh, agreement basis, for example, like freelance

Michael Heina:
Subcontractors,

Michael Heina:
Uh, freelance team. Yeah, yeah. Something like that. For example, some, uh, creating content. We have nice copywriters who, uh, were reading articles and content for us, but they are working like remotely.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. So are, are you, like, is your office in leave or are you like remote only company? Like how does it work now that the situation is what it is? It

Michael Heina:
Was in KU a long time, more than for 10 years. I lived in KI and we had office there. Uh, we officially, we are established in Estonia. It's Estonia company actually.

Artem Daniliants:
Okay.

Michael Heina:
Uh, and it's easier for us, uh, for international payments of course, for sure. To, to, um, to have an international business. Yeah. It's, uh, it's easier for us to be established in Estonia. We have a company in Poland as well. Okay. As we got to Polish accelerator space, three ac, and, uh, we got some, uh, also we got some ground from them. And, uh, now we will, uh, we are trying to, to work with the Polish market. So we, we did, we created a Polish version of Beb, and

Artem Daniliants:
That is actually a huge market,

Michael Heina:
So now we will. Good idea. Yes. It's, it's huge market. It's, uh, you know, they are now neighbors and, uh, of course it be, it would be great as well. I started to learn Polish language, and, uh, I already, how's going communicate with my, because we have a, yeah, we have accountants in Poland, and, uh, they don't speak Ukrainians, so I, I can speak with them. Polish now. We are working remotely because, uh, Nadia is now in United States, uh oh, okay. In, uh, there is a program called, uh, gist, gist Incubator. She's in Chicago right now for half a year and, uh, meeting, uh, meeting American businesses main entrepreneurs and visiting webinars and so doing, uh, like communication with, with potential customers and potential partners. So yeah. But it's not a problem. We are every day we have calls, uh, every day we have calls with, uh, with my co-founder. Like every couple of days we have calls with our team, we are discussing what we are doing. We are discussing our plans for the future. Every Monday we have, uh, team call where all the people are gathering and replanning and the, and, uh, telling about news, uh, and about our plans. So we communicating like every day.

Artem Daniliants:
Yeah. That, that's good. Uh, what about, uh, like, you know, maybe we can start wrapping up soon. I think this is really, really good. Uh, but, um, like how many users do you have currently? And you, of course, you don't have to disclose, like exactly, but is it like thousands already? Like, like how, like where are you in terms of growth? Like is it, is it hundreds, thousands, 10 thousands, maybe millions, hundred thousands?

Michael Heina:
Uh, we have, no, no, no. We have hundreds of, uh, bank users, uh, who are paying on constant basin. They have like, uh, they pay, uh, on subscription basis. Some are paying payroll subscription, some, um, some are paying monthly. Uh, but we have hundreds for the moment. But, uh, I'm sure that in, uh, several months there will be more of them because we are, uh, working with it right now.

Mikael Hugg:
Good. Good. That's amazing. Well, awesome. Was there anything, uh, mi hug that you'd like to ask before we wrap up? Was there anything on your mind? No, man, I, I think we covered everything. Uh, just wanna say that, uh, seeing you being an entrepreneur in, uh, you know, in the middle of the war, that's just something very amazing and uh, well, you know, I just have to say that good job. And I hope that more of your, your kind of people stay in Ukraine and, and rebuild it back again, this kind of stuff. You've just done everything right. Um, I love the products. That is actually something that, there's a real demand I know from my own personal experience. So Good job, man. Yeah, for sure. Uh, definitely. Hey

Michael Heina:
Guys, thanks for this great opportunity. Thanks for,

Artem Daniliants:
Thank you for joining. Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you very much